Posts by Bungi Bill

51

Did you ever have a discussion with an apostate that helped your journey out.

by jwfacts in

there seems to be a number of different ways that apostates try to get jehovah's witnesses realise they do not have the truth, ranging from subtle comments to aggressive attacks.

do you have any that looking back helped you finally leave.

some of the methods include:.

Bungi Bill

My first contacts with Ex-JWs did not occur until ten years after the last time I walked out of a kingdom hall.

For me , a series of gradually accumulating private doubts led me to carry out some discreet research; such "research" as was available in the pre-internet era. That mainly came down to a very small number of books, such as WC Stevenson's 1975: A Year of Doom?, plus certain writings of David Reed. Talking about the effectiveness of an "aggressive" approach - one "apostate" book that failed to impress me was W. Schnell's 30 Years A Watchtower Slave. It somehow came over more as the rantings of somebody slightly unbalanced, rather than an informative work on the Jehovahs Witnesses. (Even WC Stevenson gave Schnell's work a negative mention).

My doubts really began with the failure of anything to happen in 1975, plus the official silence that followed it. However, not wanting to classed amongst the "quitters", I found ways to rationalise my way around that one (for a decade or two afterwards, anyway). As Morpheus aptly described it "Realizing and accepting are two different things". That was me, all-right!

13

Just ordered the book Crisis of Conscience

by CitizenofEarth in

hello there.. i just ordered the book coc, and will son recieve it.

does anyone have anything you want to mention about the book - perhaps some things you stumbled upon that might help me understand something more?

or maybe you have any thoughts you want to share regarding the book?

Bungi Bill

"Interesting" and "revealing" are how I would best describe my thoughts after reading Crisis of Conscience. Also, I did not find it particularly heavy-going. Ray Franz's description of the inside workings of the WTS/GB certainly explain a lot.

12

C.T. Russell (the Faithful and Wise Servant) was identified by God as being 'the man in linen, the man with the writer's inkhorn' through an unsuspecting -- get this -- Sign Painter!

by ScenicViewer in

i was just now looking up one of the old references to c.t.

russell being the faithful and discreet slave, of mt.

24:45, in the finished mystery.

Bungi Bill

Goodness knows what titles he may have added to that had CT Russell lived any longer:

- perhaps, like Jim Jones (of "Jonestown" fame) he may have progressed to "Jesus" and then "God" himself!

50

The New terroists That The World have To Confront What is the Answer ?

by smiddy in

this latest attack in manchester u.k. targeting a venue attended by mainly children and teenagers who go to a concert by their favorite singer and then to be attacked by a terroist has to be the last straw... surely ?

22 dead at last count mainly young girls enjoying a concert of their favourite singer ?

and at least 50 others suffering injuries ?.

Bungi Bill

2+2=5

New Zealand has the dubious distinction of being the scene of one of the world's first instances of suicide bombing. The place was the small South Island town of Murchison (even today still only a small rural town), and the year was 1906.

A local farmer, seeing a court case going against him, decided he was going to "blow to hell" the plaintive by setting off the plugs of gelignite he had strapped on under his clothing. He succeeded in blowing himself to smithereens - while also blasting the courthouse off its foundations, seriously injuring the senior police officer who was trying to restrain him, and injuring dozens of others.

Otherwise, the small Muslim community in this country is known to contain its complement of radicals. Is anywhere safe? Scott Base, Antarctica, maybe!

31

Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay in

okay, that new video about 1975 has got people talking, and yes, the child abuse cases will always require us to remain vigilant...but after my having left in the late 1980s/early 1990s, it seems all the real "exciting" stuff is gone.

when i left the witnesses were still preaching that the "generation that was old enough to understand the events of 1914" will not pass away before armageddon comes.

no blood cards were our badges (not that stupid jw logo) and that card meant what it said, "no blood"!

Bungi Bill

Smiddy,

You could also add to that list Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction". So many people back then did fearfully believe that the world was sitting on a time-bomb, and that its detonation was more a question of "when" rather than "if".

31

Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay in

okay, that new video about 1975 has got people talking, and yes, the child abuse cases will always require us to remain vigilant...but after my having left in the late 1980s/early 1990s, it seems all the real "exciting" stuff is gone.

when i left the witnesses were still preaching that the "generation that was old enough to understand the events of 1914" will not pass away before armageddon comes.

no blood cards were our badges (not that stupid jw logo) and that card meant what it said, "no blood"!

Bungi Bill

David_Jay,

Another excellent post, and an overall discussion carried out at a depth that has become refreshingly different.

While not these days a great fan of copy and paste, this observation of yours does rate repeating:

It's got so boring that even on sites like this we are reduced to arguing with one another, exJW against exJW, trying to attack each other's new life and new set of convictions after the Watchtower.

This, sadly, has become all too common on this site. Frankly, it is disturbing the level many will stoop to , thinking nothing of name calling and other ad-hominem attacks on others who are supposed to be on the same side - i.e. Ex Jehovahs Witnesses.

As to whether the Witnesses always were boring:

- it certainly did not seem that way when I began hearing about them in the early to mid-1960s.

In fact, that was one of the initial attractions about the JWs; what they were saying did appear to be both relevant and interesting in the "modern" world of the often turbulent 1960s. By contrast, the mainstream churches came over as just about the very definition of the word "boring."

Certainly, the hardback works of F.W. Franz - such as Your Will Be Done On Earth and Babylon The Great Has Fallen! :God's Kingdom Rules at least conveyed the appearance of great academic depth. (Regrettably, this was at a time when pseudo-science gained quite a following; "Chariots of the Gods", "The Bermuda Triangle" and "Harmonic 33" being some popular examples).

I wasn't the only one to feel the same way, either. Feedback we received from the "territory" - even in the 1980s - was that "what these people are talking about is very interesting." My own sister said similar things once she entered into a "Bible Study" with the local JWs (thankfully, though, she woke up to herself before getting too deeply enmeshed!).

It is quite correct, though, that the fizz and the sparkle has long gone out of it in recent decades!

28

Window Cleaners?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

like a lot of others here, i gave higher education a miss when i left school (1980).

under the encouragement of the society i pioneered for three years instead!.

now i clean windows for a living.

Bungi Bill

Around here, they are also well represented in carpet cleaning and pest control.

11

Counting Field Service Time

by Sour Grapes in

something that always drove me crazy was when the jw's would say after the meeting on sunday, "i have to go out this afternoon to get my time in.

" in the car group after service someone would always ask, "so how much time did we get?".

it the watchtower company said that turning in time is no longer required because jehovah knows what we are doing to serve him, there would be a tremendous drop in the door to door activity and the coffee cart work.

Bungi Bill

"Pussycat Publishers" - know them well!

12

What Is Brain Washing?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i don't think this applies to the watchtower corporation as the beginning this is talking about the more extreme forms.

but interesting just the same.

i'm sure we see some of the wt's depictions of death and and destruction(verbal and in pictures) that awaits those not in corporate "jehovah's" favor, a clear uses of inducing maximum fear and stress to make the mind more suggestable to corporate directives.

Bungi Bill

Back when I was a good and loyal JW, I used to take strong exception to accusations that we, as JWs, were "brainwashed."

The expression "brainwashing" first appeared into usage during the Korean War (1950-1953), when it was used to describe the treatment meted out by the communists on allied prisoners of war. (Another name suggested for the process is "Menticide" - i.e. the complete destruction of the mind).

After researching the methods used by the communists to "brainwash" allied POWs, the only resemblance that I could see (and still can see) between this and the JWs is possibly the indoctrination process. Even that, though, while being somewhat similar in form, is nowhere close in degree. Also, indoctrination is only one of many parts to "brainwashing" a person. Prominently featured in the process are such cruelties as starvation, freezing in an unheated prison cell during the depths of a Korean winter, and the withholding of medical treatment - all the while keeping a person awake for days at a time, with three shifts of interrogators mentally tormenting him without letup.

I had to conclude from that that those who accused the JWs of being brainwashed had no idea what the process actually involved, and that the term was being used more as some sort of a religious swear word than an accurate description of anything.

(There is plenty of excellent material available about the brainwashing processes used by the communist countries. One such work I found particularly interesting was General Dean's Story. Dean was a senior American general, captured during the opening phases of the Korean War, and who endured three years of brainwashing while being held as a prisoner of war.)

65

Major changes to convention security beginning in 2017

by Edison Trent in

short info on interesting changes to the major conventions this year: there will be a new security concept that will be implemented at all regional conventions in 2017.. similar to other major events (e.g.

festivals, concerts), there will be admittance controls in stadiums.. - at each entrance, there will be a massive presence of attendants that look at each visitor.. - there will be pocket checks at the entrance.. - suspicious persons are no longer left on the convention grounds.. - suppliers to the stadium will be intensively inspected by attendants.. - there will be a special sign for attendants that must enter the stadium before 7.30 am.

all others (even all attendants) can only enter after 7.30 am..

Bungi Bill

Or the latest issue of Penthouse?